child evangelist documentary on channel 4

[Mike Harrowing]

Thursday eve 14th Feb, Channel 4 at 9pm

Cutting edge documentary about 3 child preachers in america.

"Baby Bible Bashers follows the extraordinary stories of three of the Lord's 'chosen children', and their relationships with God, their families and their congregations.
This film by BAFTA award-winning director Amelia Hann, follows these pint-size preachers as they go about their missionary work spreading the word to 'drunkards, adulterers and thieves' and uncovers the unsettling and often disturbing truth behind child evangelism."

would love to hear peoples thoughts on this documentary... opinions, reflections, theology, challenges etc.

[Suse Mammen]

I had a very mixed response to this programme. I was shocked that children so young were being put in such vulnerable positions in the process of preaching the gospel. But in the back of my head was the niggling thought that King Josiah was only 8 when he first became king - so why can't God use these kids.

But yet what came a cross was parents pushing their children. The girl still sharing a bed with her dad is 'kosher'? The dad who kept refering to the empire his son would have - unsettled me.

Not much of a response - just several questions.

[Ruth Thomas]

I didn't see the programme so I can't comment on it. But in answer to part of one of Suse's questions, kings inherit thrones when their parents die, not when any human decides that they should (and most monarchies have some sort of protectorate system if a minor inherits the throne). The first personal act of King Josiah recorded in the Bible took place when he was c. 26 years old (2 Kings 22:3). I don't think his example can be used to justify thrusting a child into a position of responsibility that's not appropriate to their age.

[Mike Harrowing]

i recorded and still half way through so will comment in a bit, but you can pick up the whole documentary on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_gngEUCMTw

[Mike Harrowing]

also more here:

http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/C/cutting_edge/baby_bible_bashers/index.html

[Ali Campbell]

I have to disagree with Ruth (sorry Ruth), 2 Chronicles 34 verse 2 "He did what was right in the eyes of the Lord . . . and walked in the ways of David" - there is no suggestion here that Josiah waited until he was an adult, or that he received good counsel from those around him, both his father and grandfather had done evil in the eyes of the Lord, I would imagine that their peers did the same - He did not become King in an environment that fostered his walk with the Lord - he speaks of David as a spiritual father in verse 2, when he was 16 (verse 3) he began to seek God and when he was just 20 began to purge Judah and Jerusalem . . . there was no "thrusting" - he went for it. A more recent example would be Charles Spurgeon who was preaching to thousands at the age of 16 . . . spiritual maturity (as apose to responsibility) is not dependant on age - Samuel's first word from the Lord (which, incidentally, came before he KNEW the Lord - what do we make of that?!) was not a pretty picture of a tree by a stream or "I love you" it was a harsh word to Eli and his family - God has a different set of parameters to us, Eli wasn't listening very well (it took him three visits from Samuel to realise what was happening), God will speak to those who are listening . . . whatever their age (Naman's slave girl being another example).

[Ali Campbell]

The 2 key issues I had with Baby Bible Bashers is that: a, they did not seem to be allowed to be children (even if they were hearing from God), they were paraded as "come and hear the "child" preacher . . . and b, they did not appear to be PRIMARILY being led by the Holy Spirit, but coached and manipulated by their parents - a child preaching at 7 about the need for people to turn to God is amazing, but when the lad was doing that in New York and seeing his father being shouted at and he was walking around in disbelief that people didn't want to know God and escape hell, when he cried - he was still a child, there was no cuddle from his dad, no arm around him, no explaining the context - that is spiritual and emotional abuse.

[Ruth Thomas]

Don't worry, I can cope with disagreement!

I'm not trying to denigrate King Josiah, who certainly does seem to have been a real good apple in a pile of bad ones, and not at all trying to suggest he was pushed by anyone. But 2 Chron 34:3 says (GNB) "In the eighth year that Josiah was king, while he was still very young, he began to worship the God of his ancestor King David" -- ie when he was 15 or 16. Hardly a child, in a world where adulthood normally began at about age 12, and someone of that age isn't normally considered a child in the UK nowadays either. From what I've read on the links Mike posted above, this documentary was talking about children aged from 7 to 9, so much less mature and able to take their own decisions than a 15- or 16-year-old like King Josiah or Charles Spurgeon.

Samuel was certainly still a boy when he was asked to pass on a message from God to Eli, but we don't know exactly how old. And he wasn't asked to preach in public, just to pass on a (rather shocking) message to someone he knew well and trusted. With Naaman's slave girl, we have no real idea how old she was and again all she did was speak to someone she knew well.

I'm NOT trying to say that God can't use children or speak to or through them! But children are easily manipulated by adults around them, and there is little or no biblical mandate for putting children into public prominence. Our Lord waited until he was 12 before saying anything at all in public, and until he was 30 before starting a full public ministry. Basically, I'm afraid that these children may be being abused. But not having seen the programme or knowing anything else of their situations, I really don't know.

[Ali Campbell]

I think I said that they were being abused. I've posted something over on the Child Theology thing from my own experience to add to the debate. No, we don't know how old Samuel was - but we can surmise that if he didn't yet know the Lord (which the Bible says) he was not of an age where he was being taught by Eli, simply helping around the temple - he was MORE THAN LIKELY a child, it also depends what you mean by public . . . a private utterance to Eli that had implications for the spiritual leadership of a nation!!

[Ruth Thomas]

Just read your second comment Ali. My fear that the children are being abused is getting stronger. Children who hear from God are still children!

[Ruth Thomas]

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